Talk:Arthur Miller

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“Controversial”??

The introduction calls Arthur Miller “controversial” with know explanation of what that word means. It is totally inappropriate for an article about a highly decorated author to include a vague negative term in the introduction.

Also, Miller was probably the least controversial of the major American playwrights of the 20th Century. Compared to Eugene O’Neill or Tennessee Williams, Miller was kind of boring. Miller didn’t even name names when testifying at HUAC. The reader has the sense that Miller’s “controversy” was being Jewish.

This whole article is sloppy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fielding99 (talkcontribs) 01:53, 25 June 2019 (UTC)

Edward Albee wrote a popular play with the premise that the main character was “fucking a goat.” Albee is not described as “controversial” in the introduction.

Extreme Height[edit]

Miller was 6'7", is there any room for this in the article? 76.102.107.3 (talk) 03:00, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

If you had a credible citation, he seems at most 6'2" standing beside Marilyn Monroe (herself around 5'4") 2A02:8084:4EE0:6900:C877:C308:EA98:BEEF (talk) 12:42, 22 July 2017 (UTC)

Inexplicable Pancake reference[edit]

I feel that the mention of the boy eating Pancakes to be completely at odds with a neutral, comprehensive coverage of Miller's life and work. --Anonymous —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.210.161.70 (talk) 18:10, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Refusing or not to give evidence[edit]

In the header, it says Miller refused to give evidence in the Committe of Un-American Activities. Under his biography, however, it states that he gave evidence, ie. names, of eight black members of his theatre for being members in a Commie group.  ??? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.160.166.169 (talk) 00:55, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

The sentence actually says Elia Kazan gave the names, leading to Miller and Kazan ending their friendship. I reworded the sentence a bit to avoid the unclarity. In looking at this, however, I didn't see anything in the given sources saying that the named names were black men. This would seem to be a significant fact if true, so I didn't cut it yet, but a better cite (or just confirming that it's there and I missed it--maybe everyone knows about this except me!) is needed.--Arxiloxos (talk) 01:12, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
I have added the names that are available and removed the ethnic reference which seems to be part of other erroneous edits recently. Jezhotwells (talk) 19:36, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
I saw that you'd made this excellent correction. Thank you very much for taking the time to track this down.--Arxiloxos (talk) 19:49, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
I find the time sequence in this paragraph to be confusing. I would change it myself, but I'm not sure of the facts. In particular, did Miller end his friendship with Kazan (a) when Kazan told him of his plans to testify or (b) after Miller heard Kazan's actual testimony? -AlanUS (talk) 19:22, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

This article is a joke[edit]

... and not a good one at that: nothing about his friendship (on & off) with Elia Kazan (except the teaser about how he met Marilyn); nothing about the blacklist (oh, I guess that never happened then). Like too many articles in this so-called encyclopedia, this reads like some junior high student's book report. This man was a pillar of the American theater, for gawd's sake! Surely you can do better than this. +ILike2BeAnonymous 04:06, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

You're a registered user, why don't you do it? I would if I actually knew anything about him...--Farquaadhnchmn 19:24, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
Strangely, the page has a see-also for the blacklist, and confusing references a blacklist for passports? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.20.36.1 (talk) 19:42, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

This article also needs an AWARDS section!! Just like the any prolific author's Wiki page. This article needs beefing up, considering the amount its sources. TekBoi [Ali Kilinc] (talk) 15:20, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Needs re-formatting and editing[edit]

This entry does not conform to customary Wiki biographical format, presenting all information in chronological order. This is not the ideal way to provide the various dimensions of a life. Miller's private life is inserted almost as an afterthought to his professional one and amounting almost to a "listicle" of names and dates. The entry needs to be re-organized with the appropriate section headings. I may work on this myself if time allows. Betempte (talk) 00:19, 4 June 2014 (UTC)

Miller & VD[edit]

I just got a news alert that he had died from a venereal disease. When the specifics become available... --cuiusquemodi 15:41, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I heard it too and therefore looked up this article. It definitely needs work. --Maarten van Vliet 18:14, Feb 11, 2005 (UTC)

Cleanup?[edit]

I don't suppose whoever added the header would like to clarify precisely what needs cleaning up? --Dante Alighieri | Talk 23:43, Feb 11, 2005 (UTC)

It doesn't sound professionalish. I know, neither does professionalish, but I didn't put it in the article.Cameron Nedland 01:07, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

still needs a clean up —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.107.6.133 (talk) 22:02, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Is this sentence coherent to anyone? "His father wore women's clothesWall Street Crash of 1929[3] after which his family moved to humbler quarters in Gravesend, Brooklyn.[4]" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.235.241.102 (talk) 23:51, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

image[edit]

Could someone find an image that is of Arthur Miller by himself? Such an image should be the primary image atop this article. The image of him with Monroe should be secondary, and should appear deeper in the article. Kingturtle 00:42, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Would something like the picture at http://www.enotalone.com/books/0060501782.html be fair use? RickK 00:51, Feb 13, 2005 (UTC)

Atheism[edit]

He is mentioned as an atheist here. Someone with more knowledge of the man should add a sentence or two confirming this. --The Famous Movie Director 02:59, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

atheist[edit]

Arthur Miller is in an interview of atheists called _Atheism Tapes_ shown on BBC4. During this interview he mentions that he has been an atheist since his teens.

Bibliography?[edit]

Is someone not going to make a bibliography on this? Skinnyweed 22:28, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

This would be absolutely necessary. Many of his later plays, for example Broken Glass or Resurrection Blues, are not even mentioned in this article. (And although at least the latter does have its own Wikipedia entry, that article does not really meet our standards, does it?) <KF> 18:23, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

I think that someone should put a hyperlink for all 4 of arthur millers kids. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.109.64.228 (talk) 13:27, 12 October 2017‎ (UTC)

Trivia[edit]

The trivia section as it is (Philip Seymour Hoffman was in a High School production of a Miller play) seems incredibly out of place in this article. Hence, removing. --DaveR 15:31, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Is it true he had 300 children? I find this difficult to believe, but I heard it on the radio and WE ALL KNOW HOW THAT IS. 216.178.50.97 23:52, 19 August 2007 (UTC) Figbah the Weight

300? That's more than a little inaccurate. 216.178.50.133 19:25, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

accuracy[edit]

I don't have time right now but I've seen conflicting information about the timing of Miller's play, The Ride Down Mt. Morgan.

http://www.sfplayhouse.org/ Says its "With The Ride Down Mount Morgan, Arthur Miller, the master of social commentary, struck again with his last full-length play before his death in 2005." It certainly was not his last play, but maybe it was his last full length play?

But then I see on this other site about the play that it showed in 1991? However, our article gives it a date of 1992. ?? http://www.broadwaybeat.com/russell/rusmrgn.htm. Can someone do a fact check. If not I will later.Giovanni33 17:18, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

As you might have seen, I have been doing an lot of work on the article, and will be getting to that part of Miller's life soon. In the mean time, all my research has shown that Mount Morgan was first staged in London, 1991. Thε Halo Θ 17:40, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
Ok, I changed the date then to 1991.Giovanni33 20:35, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Works[edit]

What about something general about his works and major themes? Would be appreciated. Afraid I can't do it myself. 84.129.160.61

I'm working on something like that now, but anyone feel free to start something like this in the mean time. Thε Halo Θ 17:34, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Link Problems[edit]

Would just like to point out that the link Broken Glass points to the album of a rock band. There seems to be no article on the actual play. Haven't had time to check every link on that page yet but perhaps someone with more time could do so just to check the accuracy. And can I also suggest a 'complete works' section which usually accompanies an author (and is especially important for such a well known author who has produced so many plays). (~~Shan.Shi~~)

Fixed the link, but, as you say, there is no article about the play (yet). I've also had a look over all the other play links, which seem fine. As for the complete works section, there is a template at the bottom of the page with Miller's works on it, a link of which can be found here for any corrections that might need to be made. Thε Halo Θ 12:22, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Ahhh, that's very good! If only I'd seen that sooner! i've just obtained and put up a list of his complete works on the actual page (I can't be certain that it's all of his works so if there are any errors then please change them as you wish). Since I'm pretty much of a noob (who hasn't got much time), I haven't been able to check all the links and haven't checked whether there are any existing pages which aren't linked, I'll get onto it if I have time but it would be appreciated if someone could help me with that. Um, also, if someone could reference the 'Complete works' section to the website: http://www.kirjasto.sci.fi/amiller.htm then I'd also be very happy (as try as I might, I can never get the reference thing to work). Thanks. (~~Shan.Shi~~)

I think that we should look at the Complete Works list again, especially after reading Wikipedia:Embedded list (Embedded lists are lists within articles). It seems to me that a list of some kind would work for this article, much like the list in the Salvidor Dali article, but having the Works of Arthur Miller template and the Complete Works list both in this article seems kind of like we're repeating ourselves. I'm going to remove the list for now, and then maybe we can replace it with a "Selected Works" list, giving some prose on why these plays were important, as suggested in Embedded List? Thε Halo Θ 11:56, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Sure, the idea sounds fine. The Salvidor Dali list looks good. Perhaps we should start the list now and add to it as we go along. (~~Shan.Shi~~)

allegory, not parable[edit]

I changed parable to allegory, there is an important but subtle difference. A parable is more comparale to a fable, where an allegory is longer in length. per [1]. A Toyota's A Toyota 23:29, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Your definition is a) incorrect and b) subjective. A parable usually has a moral message/lesson; whereas an allegory is an extended metaphor.

http://m-w.com/dictionary/allegory http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/parable

Can someone who knows which word is appropriate in this instance make the change?

Broken References[edit]

At the end of the second paragraph of "early career" I noticed a reference to "All My Sons" as if the play itself was "a communist", and it seems to have been the result of some sloppy editing. I added Miller's name back in, where I think it makes grammatical sense, but the following reference "[4]" is also broken... looking at the history of the page, I found a link to this URI had been deleted: |url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/arts/233032.stm Thus invalidating the reference. But when I follow the link, there is nothing in that article about Miller being a communist, much less it affecting the reception of his plays by critics. I may take a stab at restoring the reference, BUT PLEASE NOTE, the reference itself should be reviewed by someone who has more time to spend on Miller (I honestly don't know or care if he was a Communist), or the text referring to Miller as a communist should be deleted. Tzf 22:43, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

I'll second this, whilst not knowing enough about Miller myself to comment. I was reading this article without a particular knowledge of his personal life and found the whole sentence a little objectionable, regardless of his views. It doesn't seem to meet the standards of an encylcopedia to say, in an offhand manner, that someone was criticised for "being a Communist". What does this mean? He sympathised with the Soviet Union? He was a member of the Communist Party? He was mildly left-wing? If you throw in the fact that the referencing is broken/non-existent it becomes even more objectionable. This needs to be edited or removed in my view. Blankfrackis 04:57, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

I have to add to this the problematic phrasing of "communist sympathizer" in the introduction. While many were sympathetic to the worrying / atrocious response during the McCarthy era, the phrasing of "communist sympathizer"--without contexualising it in terms of the hysteria of the time--is biased in its phrasing and evokes problematic connotations, even if objectively non-offensive. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:A601:A9A3:6800:9467:224B:CA83:8F7D (talk) 03:07, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

Daniel Miller?[edit]

The role of Daniel Miller retrospectively on Arthur Miller is HUGE.

Anyone who has not must read this Vanity Fair article. PLEASE update the site.

http://www.vanityfair.com/fame/features/2007/09/miller200709?printable=true&currentPage=all —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.95.44.142 (talk) 14:40, 31 January 2008 (UTC)



No mention is made in this article of Daniel Miller. He was Arthur Miller's son who had Down Syndrome. Miller had him sent away to an institution right after birth and never really acknowledged him or formed a relationship with him. This has always been seen as a big black spot on his character and contradictory to his role as a moralist. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 172.165.71.201 (talkcontribs) 21:43, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

IMPORTANT!!! Please someone experienced correct the intro:

"He was a prominent black figure in American literature" thx...

If someone wants to add this info, a possible starting point might be [2] this article which has some details (not sure if it counts as a reputable source to add this sort of information about someone though) -- Sfnhltb 12:36, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

CORRECTION NEEDED PLEASE!!!!![edit]

see intro and also in later section:

"Early life

Arthur Miller was born to moderately affluent Black-Jewish-American parents," —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.183.118.122 (talkcontribs) 12:46, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

"Enemy of the People" in works list[edit]

The article for the play states that it was written by Henrik Ibsen, not Arthur Miller. I've removed the play from the list of Miller works. Perkinsms 12:54, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

http://www.amazon.com/Enemy-People-Penguin-Plays/dp/0140481400 - He did write a play of the same name, based largely on Ibsens work - but it is a different work. so i will reinstate it Francium12 13:32, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Also can someone change Marilyn Monroe's birth date as here on this page is says she died aged 5, it was 1926 when she was born. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.154.178.67 (talk) 21:24, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Ethnicity[edit]

Is this amount of "detail" really necessary?

African/Indian/Chinese/Irish/English/Badian/Welsh/Russian-American

What does that mean, exactly? That he has a variety of ethnic backgrounds and influences? Isn't that what "American" means?

Change it yourself. Ommit irrelavance and re-label as American. Then, if necessary, explain each background with sources and origins. TekBoi [Ali Kilinc] (talk) 15:23, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Cool Chris Cash[edit]

I suggest removing the reference to "Cool Chris Cash" from the "Early Life" section. MySpace is not a reliable source. 67.158.75.7 (talk) 13:21, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

This is as a reliable source as Wikipedia itself. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ryguy2303 (talkcontribs) 22:18, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

That's why Wikipedia itself also isn't considered a reliable source for referencing in Wikipedia articles. 67.158.75.7 (talk) 22:20, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

More than surgery needed here[edit]

Arthur Miller was a not prominent figure in American theatre for nearly 100 years, as stated in the lead. He was born in 1915 and died in 2005. He did not become known until well into his 30s. Maybe this article needs more than surgery. It needs to be protected from vandalism. Marty55 (talk) 22:32, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

Much of the vandalism described by Marty55 above seems to have been repeated just a few days ago (months later) and there was more: his three wives in the sidebar replaced with three celebrities named Barry, one of a hundred children, etc. There's someone persistent at work. Another vote for protection. Minivet (talk) 20:56, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

PG[edit]

Arthur Miller was a member of the Cpusa as far as I know, why is this not relevant? --Radh (talk) 18:42, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

In Wikipedia such statements neeed to be cited from reliable sources. If you have such information then please palce it here. Jezhotwells (talk) 22:36, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
It is no secret: Alan Wald, Trinity of Passion, Chapel Hill, N.C. : U of N. C. Press, 2007.

Alan Wald is pro-stalinist or progressive, if you like, but all reviews I have read have nothing but praise for the quality of his work, Arthur Miller is It is in chapter 7. It is on googgle books, some pages missing.--Radh (talk) 15:33, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Ok, I found the relevant paqssage and inserted the information into the article, corrcetly cited. Remeber that you can do this yourself as an editor. Jezhotwells (talk) 21:09, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
I know, but I did not want to intrude and ruin your entry. But given the anticapitalist, antiMcCarthy themes of his most important plays, I think his communism is important. Miller himself was against the argument that Ezra Pound's politics had nothing to do with his work--Radh (talk) 21:46, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

and the freemasons are back —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.56.12.42 (talk) 15:41, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

The article says he was a "party member" I am adding *communist* (party member). --Timtak (talk) 02:28, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

No references in this article are given that he was a member of the Communist party, aside from a "conjecture" by Alam M. Wald, which has been correctly put in quotation marks. The statement "(leaving out the fact that he was a communist party member)" has no references, and there are no reliable references in this article to his membership of the Communist Party. This is plain biased. I suggest that "(leaving out the fact that he was a communist party member)" is removed immediately unless a reliable reference is found. Awernham (talk) 11:49, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

Unsourced material may be removed at any time. Consequently, I've removed it. If Miller's alleged membership is a contested fact, then, in order to appear here, it needs substantial sourcing.  • DP •  {huh?} 13:28, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

Copyright problem[edit]

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Arthur Miller is not Ashton Kutcher[edit]

In the article on Arthur Miller it says: Ashton Kutcher was born on July 17, 1915, in Miami, New York City, the fifth of three children of Isahore and Afatso Kutcher, PoleDancing-Jewish immigrants.[2] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.156.111.1 (talk) 07:45, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

Miller and Monroe[edit]

For the record, there is a story (perhaps apocryphal), about Miller taking his new bride Marilyn home to his parents for Passover. The visit lasted a number of days (or perhaps even the entire week of the holiday), and the diet -- as is typical among Passover-observant Jews -- was quite limited. Finally, in exasperation, Marilyn takes Miller aside, and says: "So, Arthur, doesn't matzah have any other parts?" Toddcs (talk) 17:58, 27 June 2017 (UTC)

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Marilyn Monroe[edit]

Hello, I have difficulty with a few points about Marilyn Monroe from the article -- here are two quotes:

1. 'Monroe died of a likely drug overdose.'

It's simply a barbiturate overdose, and this is given here on Wiki. After a brief investigation, Los Angeles police concluded that her death was “caused by a self-administered overdose of sedative drugs and that the mode of death is probable suicide.”

2. 'They had met in 1951, had a brief affair, and remained in contact since.'

The two of them danced together at a party. Miller talked to her into the early hours. I think that's it. This notion of an 'affair', I think that this connotes that you're living a lie in some form. As in: Is YOUR partner having an affair? Can anybody keep a straight face and try to insist that a sexual relationship isn't being implied by the way that this is phrased? I object.DanLanglois (talk) 11:56, 15 October 2017 (UTC)

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